'fully man' and 'fully god'

Left this commented on: http://carlonline.blogspot.com/



I think maybe a way that people can handle the "fully man” and "fully god" thing is to keep them conceptually separate. I am not sure if people would be just willing to do this or if they need a reason for doing so. If they do not need a reason then it works fine; if they do then a reason needs to be come up with.

On a theological said of things, I think a reason could be that Jesus himself while realizing he was God humbled himself in front of God (his father). I think for the Christians this might do; for those coming from the atheistic said of things I think they might want something else which is not based on theology as well as they would say: why was it necessary or why would Jesus humble himself in front of God as this could be thought as Jesus humbling himself in front of himself.

The response from the Christians would be either you do not understand our perceptive/understanding of the make-up and nature of the trinity (in it components or its whole) or that was part of what made Jesus so great and it is the goal of Christians to focus on God and the Kingdom of Heaven and not earthly issues (as Jesus demonstrated i.e., ‘walking the walk,’ rather than just preaching which is the message behind ‘God sending his only Son to us’). The atheistic (I mean from an intellectual side of things) might say that was fine-and-dandy for Jesus to do as he is God and thus at no risk for damnation or that because of being God he knows without a doubt that God exists and he knows without a doubt what is expected to be done and how to rightfully go about achieving it.

This leads us to the issue of whether or not Jesus was fully God and fully man (a circular issue). I think the Christians would respond by saying Jesus is shown to be fully man and fully God because he was faced by the same temptation in human form as rest of us (that he is God is an untouchable/should not be touched first principle of faith): I think this open the question of that if Jesus fell for temptation (such as that by Satan and offering the world) would he have faced damnation like the rest of us. I think the response would be it is not in the nature of Jesus to fall for temptation (I think they would be forced to say this as to suggest that Jesus had a nature that might have permitted him to have fallen would be blasphemy); however, the response to this could be, in that case is it fair to say Jesus was ‘fully man’ if he did not have the same nature as us. The response to this would be Jesus was the type/nature of person that would have not chosen (i.e., Free-will) to fall for temptation but he could have if he wanted to: which brings us into a debate about what makes a person fall for temptation and more importantly what prevent someone (in both cases here more specifically Jesus) including questions down the line of what is Free-will? Some also might consider it blasphemy to consider Jesus not having Free-will.

The aesthetics would respond saying what about Jesus’ inside understand of God existence and what is expected and how to go about it? The Christians would explain the knowledge is ours through Jesus and/or the Bible. The aesthetics would respond what about uncertainty. The Christians would respond uncertainty does not exist through Jesus or the Bible it exists either through not understanding what is being taught (i.e., limited capacity) or things (or ourselves) blocking/distracting us from understanding i.e., temptations, sin, etc.

I think to break the circular issue we need to say theology and atheism or even theology and philosophy (to say that theology and philosophy are two very different things) should not meet. I think too many people conceive theology as the Philosophy of Religion (which it is not as Philosophy of religion is the application of principles of philosophy on religion or religious issues) or they conceive theology as Religious Philosophy (which it is not as to say ‘religious philosophy’ is to suggest that its base root is philosophy that in my understanding that philosophy has its own rules/way-of-doing-things which do not rely on religious principles or beliefs for its base).

In short, (1) we need to keep fully man and fully god conceptually separate to understand them (and have faith in reality the two exists together in symbiosis); and (2) that theology and atheism or even theology and philosophy cannot be reconciled together, paired respectively.